Werkself Magazine – Rolfes: ‘I believe in our strength’

Simon, on the photo from the training camp in Donaueschingen you look like a chess player. A suitable description for the sporting managing director?

Rolfes: I know the rules at least, I used to play chess from time to time and then later with my children. And, of course, in my job there is the analogy of always having to think a couple of steps ahead. I like the strategic components: How things can develop, what medium-term effects does a move have? But there is a fundamental difference with chess: At the end of the day, here it's about people you can't just shove around, move two steps forward then one to the right. That's the fascinating part: Working with people makes it interesting and exciting as every player, every coach has a different character.

What's your desire for strategic thinking based on?

Rolfes: To a great extent that probably depends on your type but my position as a player on the pitch definitely played an additional role. As a player at the centre of the team you are at a sensitive interface between risk and opportunity. There's always the question of if you go forward and create a numerical advantage then you might be able to open up a chance but at the same time you can weaken the defence. You always have to weigh it up: Is the opportunity to score a goal or create a big chance greater than the threat if you lose possession? You have to have that ability as a player in the middle of the park.

How would you describe yourself: more active up front or more cautious?

Rolfes: That's not easy to answer. We often bring in young players who we see potential in. That fundamentally involves taking risks but obviously offers great opportunities. I don't go headlong into taking risks according to the motto: That worked well the first time, now it will always work. I'm more conservative. Taking a risk is okay but professionalism in scouting and recruitment must always be of a top standard. We try to do our work at the highest level in these areas so that we can take calculated risks of a financial and sporting nature. Because that gives you the opportunity to create the opportunities. Weighing it up is all part of it. But simply to get stuck in, take pot luck with risks means there is a lack of the component of responsibility.

You have a special responsibility as the sporting managing director. Were you able to switch off in the summer and enjoy the success?

Rolfes: After the celebrations in Berlin and the incredibly emotional Coming Home event I didn't do anything for two days and then it was back to normal. As a sporting manager you are always on duty in the summer as there's always something happening due to the transfer window. I only get some rest and the chance to recharge my batteries in September during the first international break. Of course, I'm incredibly satisfied. We battled for a long time to become champions of Germany. We can all be proud of that. Everybody here at the club helped create a special spirit and an exceptional atmosphere that touched many people. Many say you can never be satisfied. I see it differently. Anybody who is not satisfied with what he does cannot produce top performances. That doesn't mean you don't have to remain ambitious. It's about the desire to get to something new.

The start of the season has been made somewhat more difficult due to the tournaments in the summer.

Rolfes: This year is definitely more complex due to the Euros and the Copa America. A lot of players joined us later and there's a different state of preparation. It's different if you have a five-week break rather than three and have played in a tournament on top of that as you also have the mental stress too. Perhaps that's why there are players who have to work their way into the new season while there are others who are right at it from the start. I believe in our strength. The challenge is perhaps bigger but, at the same time, we can take an incredible amount from the double season in terms of certainty, confidence, and strength. The belief of being able to turn games round or come out on top in pressure situations such as knockout games. The double isn't something to rely on but it helps and gives you inspiration. You could see that in the Supercup against Stuttgart.

To what extent can you influence that from outside?

Rolfes: Competition for places always definitely helps. That's why we try to set up an incentive in each part of the team. In addition, it sounds relatively straightforward, it's about always producing a good level of training every day. The fundamental element is the culture of training well every day to be able to deliver quality permanently. That's how you win games and create a team spirit. You can't build a team on a canoe trip in the preseason but rather when you're under pressure, in stressful situations and you notice you are together on the pitch: We are a unit. You have to create that again every year even if the team is almost the same as there are always new set-ups, players who rise up the hierarchy within the group and others who suddenly have to fight for their place. A team recreates itself every season.

How much have your thoughts about transfer change by comparison this summer?

Rolfes: We have maintained the structure of the team. The big challenge is to carry on improving the team with new personnel without restricting current players in their development. Making a mark in an economic sense that is possible for us financially is more difficult. Last season was definitely easier to see the areas that needed improving.

At the same time, that's a sign of how far the team has come on the way to being a top team.

Rolfes: You shouldn't just reduce that to the double. You can see the development as well in the UEFA club coefficient rankings, which we have been in the past five years. In 2020 when many of the players in today's team came in such as Florian Wirtz, Exequiel Palacios, Patrik Schick, Edmond Tapsoba and then in the following winter break Jeremie Frimpong, we were in 25th place – now we are eleventh ahead of clubs like Barcelona, Juventus and Arsenal. That's a huge leap forwards: 14 places. Our target then was to be in the top 16 in Europe and that continues with a budget that is more in the area of the top 25 to 30. You can see the development internally and externally. We feel the club can now be seen in a different way.

You were unbeaten champions and you won the DFB Pokal. It was an historic season. Are you afraid of expectations being too big?

Rolfes: The probability of having another season like that is incredibly limited. (He laughs) We as a club, the players and our fans know that. There will be games we lose; games where we aren't perhaps so good. There will be misplaced passes and that's all part of it. We didn't play brilliantly in every game last season so you can't glorify it and completely cloud the picture. Nevertheless we are totally ambitious. We have a good team, we have good players and we will have a good spirit.

And winning the league title proves: Bayer 04 can do it all.

Rolfes: We take the certainty we can do it with us. Many people from all sides will say it's all about: 'You won't be champions again anyway...' Proof of being able to do it is worth its weight in gold to the club. It's a great boost that we have to use in the coming years.

How big is the belief in being able to win more trophies?

Rolfes: We have the fourth highest spending on players in Germany but we finished top. So it is possible. We won't be the second club in terms of budget but instead we have to work with what we have so that we ideally finish higher than fourth place. There is also always a certain development cycle in a team. Jeremie Frimpong, who was a key player last season was not the same Jerry we signed four years ago. We'll try to always improve the quality of the team as now with Aleix Garcia and Martin Terrier coming in but also a player like Jeanuel Belocian who we think has a big future but still has to develop. We want to be successful but at the same time we have to see that the team keeps on developing. That's the balancing act. We know how we stand, what is possible financially and what's not. We deal with that responsibly. We won't be the number two in terms of budget but that doesn't mean we can't finish higher than fourth place.

The club is now aiming for the permanent target of playing in the Champions League. That wasn't always the case…

Rolfes: Anyone with a top four budget has to have appropriate targets. In football there can always be reasons why certain targets are achieved. That's sport, not everything is predictable. But we have to give our all to reach the Champions League positions and in the best case scenario, as recently, go far beyond our financial possibilities.

When did that concept become clear?

Rolfes: Ambition was always there. The belief that we could achieve more grew with the increasing quality of the players and the staff. In 2020, when Flo, Edi, Pala and Patrik joined us, we did a lot of good transfers but they all took time. In the summer of 2022 when we qualified for the Champions League early in third place you could feel how much potential there was in this team. We knew: That doesn't have to be the limit for this team. It was great belief. Ambition is a thing – you can say a lot but the question is: Do you really believe it yourself? You have the right power if everybody feels that isn't just said but also that we believe it and that we can do it.

Bayer 04 has often been accused of not being ambitious enough at the end of the day and being satisfied too early. According to the maxim of a mirage of feeling good…

Rolfes: I remain convinced that a person has to feel good to achieve the best possible performance levels. That includes confidence, getting on well together. But, at the same time, we have high expectations in the professionalism, quality, the attitude to work, and the intensity in training. Today we are significantly more professional. We demand a lot more from the players and they spend more time here than they used to. Encourage and demand is the only way to complete the development. We live this approach of wanting to be better. One example: The athletics section used to be much smaller. But now we have more and better specialists and work a lot more with the players on the athletic side. The players feel that we are at a different level in many respects than in previous years.

What does the coming Champions League campaign mean on the pitch?

Rolfes: Our aim is not only to compete in the Champions League but also be a genuine Champions League team and be really competitive. Of course, we want to go through to the knockout rounds in the new league phase, which I see as very exciting and well thought out. You can never predict anything more than that. Speculation doesn't make any sense. But the Champions League is a great challenge. It's the next development stage we want to achieve where we can say: 'Hello, here we are."

Does this development include Simon Rolfes standing up more in public?

Rolfes: Definitely. The move from the pitch to the office is a huge step. I believed I had the ability to do a successful job after my playing career. Nevertheless, I was never arrogant that I could do everything but rather have the clear desire and consciousness to want to develop. Of course, over those years I learned an incredible amount from Fernando and Rudi about that. And obviously I do things differently today with my experience than I did five years ago. I've definitely become more confident and braver.

How much have you changed otherwise?

Rolfes: Changes aren't bad per se, even worthwhile but you should stand by your values in life and maintain them even if football is a crazy business in terms of attention, money, influence. That shouldn't change a person but is often a poisoned chalice. It definitely helps me to have had a playing career where I went through all the phases as a young lad. I know that there are these changes in every direction. That you shouldn't use the changes upwards or use them to lift yourself up so that the downturn does not hit you too hard personally. I very much hope I can continue to develop but still be able to maintain my values, which are important to me and us as a family.

Which values what you define as unnegotiable?

Rolfes: Reliability. If I approve something then I stand by it. Shaking hands is the same as a contract for me. On top of that there is being down to earth. I see keeping your feet on the ground as really important. But being down to earth does not exclude ambition.

Where far can the whole club develop?

Rolfes: I think we have huge potential because it is often the case that children in particular become fans of a club during a period of success. A club usually has three generations of fans: grandparents, parents, children. The first generation where children became Leverkusen fans to a great extent was the 2000 generation. The Bayer 04 team back then made their mark on an era with incredibly great games. A good 20 years later we now enthuse the second generation to support us. That means: In the next 20 years we have the chance a win over a third fan generation. Many people underestimate our huge potential. It’s no longer the Bayer 04 Leverkusen from 15 years ago. Bayer 04 are the number one in the Rhineland and we are an international advert for our region. We see that in all areas and the double season was obviously a boost to this development. In the next few years we have a huge chance to achieve a much higher level than many people think. A lot more is possible.

What role does head coach Xabi Alonso play in this success story?

Rolfes: We are all fortunate that the club has developed so well over the past 30 years. I would like to specifically mention Werner Wenning (chair of the shareholders committee; ed.) who has ensured that the club has continued to move forward and is always able to build on solid foundations. The chance, I had and have, is based on the work of others otherwise it would not have been possible. Together with Xabi we completed some outstanding transfers in the summer of 2023 but many players were already here. He also benefited from it. Xabi definitely produced an upturn and raised awareness outside the club. In addition to his quality as a coach he has brought in some excitement that has definitely done the club good. But I also believe that Bayer 04 offers him an outstanding opportunity not just to develop this team but also himself.

When you look back was there a moment in the negotiations with Xabi Alonso where you thought: The risk with an inexperienced coach would be immense.

Rolfes: The elements of 'no experience' could not be denied as could our unusual situation of being sixteenth in the table. You couldn't argue that away: But with all the other parameters we saw that the lights were on green: Do we want to play football as Bayer 04? When you compare that with the way Xabi's San Sebastian team played and we were on the same level. That is: green. Does that fit the players we have? Green. How were the references on his personality? Green. Does this personality suit Bayer 04? It does. All these components were on green. Then there's the question: Do you believe in quality or do you just believe in experience? We believed in Xabi but also on the quality of the team. And we knew we would give Xabi strong support to make up for the lack of experience. Looking back you can see that everything worked brilliantly.

It was your marquee transfer on the way to winning the title. Do you see it like that?

Rolfes: The decisions in the last summer transfer window were equally important but also issues that were changed before, not just with the team but also everything around it. An incredible number of people and departments play a role. In the end, there were a lot of parts of the puzzle that made sure the picture was so beautiful